Thread:AllianceScoutAiothai/@comment-24660155-20190708050436/@comment-24660155-20190712050116

AnimeNerd2017 wrote: You want to go Channel 44 to Channel 45, man? I never said your source was outdated, Beta did. But if we're going sources, I'll just use your own - read it, man. It doesn't support spanking, it just says the effects might be somewhat overblown.

'...Still, most psychologists are concerned about spanking, which has been shown to increase risk of anxiety, depression, and aggression later in life, says Laura Markham, Ph.D., a clinical psychologist and author. Besides, she says spanking doesn’t work. “Not only does it cause pain and frighten kids, it interferes with their ability to internalize the parent’s message,” Markham says.

“When you hit them, they’re not thinking about what you want them to do, they’re just thinking, ‘This person 10 times my size who’s supposed to be protecting me is now hitting me.’”'

'The reality is that many parents hit kids when they’re frustrated, not when they’re attempting to deliver a calm, unemotional disciplinary message, she says. And explaining to them later why you hit them, as authoritative parenting guidelines suggest, won’t erase the trauma of the experience. “If a man hits his wife,” she says. “I don’t think explaining later why he did it is going to make her feel any better.”

What’s more, spanking puts kids in the “fight, flight, or freeze” stress-response mode, she says, which means the learning centers in their brains shut down and they’re not getting the lesson the parent is trying to teach them. In one study of 1,400 adults, in fact, researchers reported that brain scans of kids who were spanked once a month revealed increases in the size of the amygdala, which is considered the brain’s “alarm center.” A more active “alarm” in the brain might help explain why spanked kids show more aggression later: “You might react more quickly with aggression if you were worried about your safety,” Markham speculates. In addition, the study showed reductions in the areas of the brain responsible for empathy, self-regulation, and ability to pay attention.'

And while your source says that the studies might be overblown or partly unrepresentative, it does not overall prove that corporal punishment is not harmful. In fact, your final damn conclusion reads:

'Markham nonetheless maintains that spanking is ineffective. “Once you’re punitive, kids stop thinking you’re on their side,” she says. “They want to feel that you’re their backup and here to help them.”'

If you hear me sounding a bit on the 'getting angry' side, that's because I am. Here's more:

[//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719514/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719514/]

'The word discipline means to impart knowledge and skill – to teach. However, it is often equated with punishment and control. There is a great deal of controversy about the appropriate ways to discipline children, and parents are often confused about effective ways to set limits and instill self-control in their child.

In medical and secular literature, there is great diversity of opinion about the short-term and long-term effects of various disciplinary methods, especially the use of disciplinary spanking. This statement reviews the issues concerning childhood discipline and offers practical guidelines for physicians to use in counselling parents about effective discipline.

The Canadian Paediatric Society recommends that physicians take an anticipatory approach to discipline, including asking questions about techniques used in the home. Physicians should actively counsel parents about discipline and should strongly discourage the use of spanking.'

[//www.verywellfamily.com/is-spanking-children-a-good-way-to-discipline-1094756 https://www.verywellfamily.com/is-spanking-children-a-good-way-to-discipline-1094756]

'Spanking a child can create even more problems than it cures. Here are a few reasons you may want to rethink spanking your child: This is the kind of shit I expect to deal with while running my section in the Military Band, for Christ's sake. I've got my fair share of people who I think need discipline. We have a LOT of them in the Band. We're not caning them, we're reprimanding them and guiding them. Is it a slow process? Damn well yes it is. Is it effective? Yup.
 * Spanking doesn’t teach kids how to behave appropriately. A child who gets spanked for arguing with his brother won't learn how to get along better in the future. Effective discipline should teach new skills.
 * Spanking models aggression. Children do what parents do, more than what they say. So if you spank your child for hitting his brother, you'll send a confusing message.
 * Children who are spanked often feel shame. They may think, "I'm bad," and may struggle with self-esteem issues. Children who experience shame aren't motivated to improve their behavior.
 * Spanking shifts a child's focus from their behavior to their parent's behavior. They may spend their time focusing on how they are angry at their parent rather than on what they could do better next time. Kids then begin to make decisions based on thinking “What can I do that won’t get me a spanking” versus “What’s the best choice I can make right now.”
 * Spanking loses effectiveness over time. Sometimes kids decide the misbehavior is “worth it.” A more effective discipline strategy, such as taking away electronics for 24 hours, can be much more effective in motivating kids to behave.'

I wanted to say something about your remarks to Beta, but I don't think I will. There's no real point in discussing that part because honestly speaking nothing will change.

See ya another time, jeez. I'll talk on Discord if you so want, full privacy guaranteed. My source also says: "That study, however, looked at the effects of “harsh corporal punishment,” which the authors noted meant that kids were struck, on average, once a month “frequently with objects.” Harsh and frequent spanking isn’t what Larzelere is suggesting. That most spanking research lumps abusive behavior along with measured, open-handed spanks is is one problem that he and Ferguson have with most spanking studies. Data collected in these studies cut across too broad a swath, they argue, so that parents who hit their kids with belts or switches and leave bruises or cuts, for example, are lumped in with parents who use the unemotional, non-abusive spanking that they suspect will benefit some kids."

As for your mental illness point, I can't speak to those specific studies, but will respond with a debunking of one of the major studies done in favor of spanking-related PTSD. "Despite the Yahoo headline, and many others like it, the study, published in Pediatrics in early July, does not actually link spanking to mental illness. In fact, the study has nothing to do with spanking at all. Canadian researchers asked 34,000 adults how often they had been pushed, grabbed, shoved, slapped, or hit by their parents or other adults when they were children. The authors explain that they were trying to assess the long-term effects of regular harsh physical punishment, which, they write, “some may consider more severe than ‘customary’ physical punishment (i.e., spanking).” Ultimately, the researchers reported that adults who have mental problems are more likely to say they were pushed, grabbed, shoved, slapped, or hit by their parents than healthy adults are."[1] I already said the bolded practices are unacceptable.

To your military band argument, I also said physical discipline against a teenager is wrong.

I hate child abuse. Not sure how many more times I have to say that, but it's true. As many studies as you can find backing up a supposed PTSD-spanking connection narrative, I can find articles proving they're either flat out lies or exagerrations. I'm happy to debate you Kuro, but a debate mandates that we both put aside blind emotion, and reject profanity-laced personal assaults. Again, I sincerely want to end this respectfully and in a mature manner.